Sept. 10 Talk back after 4:30pm Show

Noemie Lafrance: So we’ve been working quite a bit on ideas of space and also ideas of how to use the space as if the audience was a canvas and also how to leave space for people to participate without asking for it

Dancer:
So I want to know from the audience what moments they thought participated more or what moved them?

NL: Yeah we want to use your feedback to change the piece and we are willing to change it drastically– next week obviously, we are going to change it for the 5:30, because that is in 10 minutes, but on Saturday before the show we have 3 hours and this by the way was a piece that was made really fast like in the last week but um we finished it this morning after we had the chance to try it with people last night, but yeah we love to know where you’d want to go with it if it were your choice?

Audience: And your goal is it that you want us to be involved with the dancers, participating?

NL: That is one of my goals but I want it to be free, that its more inviting that anything else not that you’re asked to or have to. You already to participate inevitably because you’re moving around and things are being moved around and in some moments your sort of forced to participate but its all without saying do this, it’s implied, so yeah the goal would be that you would feel comfortable to participate.

A: I found interesting that the when you use the word the audience is not one thing, the audience can be moving unmasked like a group and oat other points, I felt, I was moving in a more intimate interaction with a dancer. I was wondering if other audience members felt similar observations or certain moments were more charged or observing or interesting?

A: I think that the dancers’ proportion was strange to me. I felt immediately that this was designed for a mass.

NL: Right

A: That you wouldn’t prefer more dancers than audience members. In public, that’s probably not what you’re going for. I felt that that was strange for the audience members and the performers.

I felt like my other immediate reaction was that it was so obvious to me who was going to perform and who was here to watch. And so that immediately set up such a division

NL: Yea right, you guys were all on this side and they were all kind of on that side.

So I guess my question is - Is it part of the goal to try and challenge that division between performer and audience, and the choice of the performer seemed to e, I wondered by you didn’t make different decision about the performers aesthetically

NL: in terms of their costuming you mean?

A: in terms of the of maybe using a group of people that wouldn't immediately stand out as performers

NL: Right, right

A: Like someone that looks more like a lawyer than a dancer

NL: In costuming and in attitude?

A: In body size, age…

NL: but yes we were thinking and talking about that to build it gradually so that we’d only reveal a couple of dancers and than more dancers - is that partially what you’re saying

A: You could tell the dancers immediately

NL: yes yes I got that, I could tell that too today, especially because there were a few people and also just btw if you’re interested you can stay for the other performances that is not a problem so you can see the differences

A: I could tell who was the dancer but I like that because I’m here at a performance and I’m seeing a performance and I felt it was really possible to me to become one of those performers without any special I just had to be present and willing

NL: And then you decided not to do it?

A: Well I…
(Laughter)

NL: Okay cool

A: The volume going up, that was the moment I felt surprise and it felt very effective and it felt like a true way of making he audience participate by necessity because if someone starts talking to me or one of the performers who I couldn’t tell it she was a performer or not, I gathered she was, and without noticing we all started talking louder, I thought that as very effective there were moments of that – the mixture between the organized choreography to the mixing in with the audience and that in and out I thought that as very effective. I think the participating is very, I think for him it was not a big deal, I think its about the audience showing us the blocks we feel, like embarrassing, I felt the moments were more exciting and made we want to participate, moments were going on and that group doing things together and repeating it and as an audience you do want to participate but I also felt like it was made for a bigger audience maybe

I think it’s interesting to the moments like when you walk in the u shape around the wall, that would be a moment where I felt like I wanted to jump it but because its so stylized at that moment its not clear if that is what you want, for an individual, and probably most people will be who are coming here, is one who is used to going to s performance where it was the less structured places that felt more open by design, but not necessarily that were the more inspiring to want to participate and although I really appreciate the whole setup of not necessarily asking anyone to participate because it’s not incredibly clear you want participation, that those moments that were less structured, I wanted, I would, like to get into that line but I was less likely to because a there wasn’t enough space, so I could have completely jumped it, but I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to be watching at that moment,. So I wasn’t sure if there was anyway to let people know that, that would be something to discuss amongst you, without attempting to design it from the outside so I think that is a fine line to cross. But I also think that as an audience member, should I should I should I should? Will I will I will I will I? I think that is also very telling about your self to yourself, so I think that is also a very interesting aspect about it also?

A: I agree with that - I was wondering when you did it last night if people jumped into places in the other show?

NL: So it was a fine line of it being people being a lot of people, little drunk (laughter) and the bar and there were literally people who jumped in, and interesting the 7:00 was different than the 8:00, but interesting when we were ‘coming through coming through’ and there was a woman coming through with us, and she went in on that I thought she was trying to leave and because they started backing up, and she was like ‘whoa whoa’, but she told me later that she intentionally was doing it, and there were other people that participated who came and actually asked me was that okay that I did that?

A: There was moment where he was going and I decided to just because, but if it wasn’t him I probably wouldn’t have done that because I know him, but I didn’t feel like moving but I wanted to see what happened if I didn’t, but I wasn’t sure, so I asked him after was I supposed to do that and he said no you’re supposed to move. (Laughter)

D: Because I know her really well, that’s why I said that (more laughter)

A: Another question: I’m standing against the wall because I don’t want to move and someone says excuse me but you have to get out of the way - am I being invited to participate or am I being told what my role is?

NL: I know

A: Another dance came up to me and said we may ask you get off the wall, so I thought (laughter) and so that immediately creates the distinction between audience and performer, so really the line should walk around me shouldn’t they?

NL: well, no – and that’s the thing - so yesterday we had this experiment where the first show we did walk around people and it really felt like the performance was not achieving what we were supposed to do, and so I made the decision that we would, in cases like the L shape that I call it all around, we would just say ‘get off the wall it was a question of we are either not going to be able to do our performance and the public will win over by not moving or we have to take over the situation and make it happen and so we decided to go for the more firm without being completely aggressive

A: Which also creates the distinction between audience and dancer, I think

NL: Yes, you’re right it does and I’m still thinking and so I don’t know but it’s a choice of like a game we want to win the game of us being able to do our performance, but we want to use the audience as a canvas, but we want to have a response

A: Its nice to, like what Kathy said, I came to a performance and I wanted to know & saw the performers and I enjoyed that. When you’re doing the L, It was a beautiful moment and one of my favorite so I wanted to watch it; I also wanted to do it. It’s just a moment and maybe that just goes unanswered and you see what happens.

It’s an aspect of it; part of it too was everyone was so real and in real time and everyone was really gracious types of people and so that really made it

I sort of think that the idea and the goal, and maybe there is several goals. But at a certain point this is the performance and this is the move and we going around the outside and at that point we are acting as a group and you guys are acting as group

NL: We’re like two groups kind of playing off each other.

A: And that is a distinction - but If you’re wanting us to join you and if you’re wanting us to actually join us. its almost like we need actual eye contact and more subtlety of movement so that you’re like oh I’m having a connection with this person (right) so then if everyone is having a connection with someone its all a movement like swaying and then suddenly oh, everyone is swaying and the effect is a little more, but if you’re wanting us to connect then an individual connection will help actually help us connect.

NL: From the beginning kind of?

A: Yeah, because I didn’t know that I was supposed to participate, I thought my participation was oh, they’re herding us around and like I’m over here now.

NL: Right right, there is definitely that. And right, you see the thing is we weren’t able to achieve the moving people around last night completely we didn’t achieve it and then this time we are trying to achieve it and it seems like people in the end if they weren’t getting moved around like they weren’t getting results it was as if the audience wanted to feel as if the audience wanted to happen has happened to them,
But I think that’s all really good feedback in fact I really like that.

In fact we have a blog that we put together for the audience that are more snoopy and want to know more about how they should behave and what is going on in the change of the performance, and they can go and look at the blog and there will be more and more cues in there as time goes by, we’re going to put the recording of the conversation and some writings from different writers and stuff from me and from the dancers

A: Where is it? On your website?

NL: Yes, the blog can be found on our website – and at thewhiteboxproject.blogspot.com
It’s on the program which you get when you exit

Thank you so much everyone! Thank you for the feedback!